Why can't I get ICS to work? (W2K)

[kef999]

I'm using two Win2K Pro machines in a peer-to-peer home network. It uses a Belkin PCI 10/100 Ethernet card in each machine, together with a crossover cable. The modem's a 56K external and dial-up on the main machine works 100%. The card drivers are installed, ICS on the ISP connection on the machine acting as the server (the main machine)has been enabled, and TCP/IP has been configured accordingly. I've tried both auto IPs and static IPs but, in both cases, the client machine rapidly times out, not finding the server. Any clues as to why this is happening?

The client machine has no ISP account installed but, of course, still has Internet Explorer and Outlook Express. I configured it to connect via the LAN.

File and printer sharing between the two works fine but Internet connection sharing's a big failure at present. What am I doing wrong?

(Mclaughlin21, can you help?).

[mclaughlin21]

I'm probably not the one to take you through this - you may end up worse off!!
I set the 2 pc's up manually - and the LAN connection has the host pc as 192.168.0.1 with gateway 255.255.255.0, and the client as 192.168.0.2.
I only have one dialup account – and the settings are auto detect IP address and DNS.
The only other things I recall manually setting were Sharing – to enable ICS and On demand dialling, and under Settings/Services – FTP Server /SMTP / POP3.

I think everything else was mostly default.

I do recall having similar problems on the 98SE client – it would time out before getting a connection. I had to ‘Enable DNS’, and add my Win2000 ‘computer name’ as ‘host’ and DNS Server search order as 192.168.0.1
After that I have had no problems.
It certainly sounds as if the client settings are missing something like DNS settings?

Hope this helps a little – keep us all informed

Brian

[kef999]

Thanks for responding.

Your descriptions are very interesting. For example, you say "... and under Settings/Services - FTP Server/SMTP/PO3". Well, I've wondered about those settings for a long time but left them all unchecked, as the wording for them in that section suggests that they're needed only for REMOTE networking, ie networking with other machines across the Internet, not for LOCAL networking. I've assumed, therefore, that they're nothing to do with the ISP account on the server (gateway) machine and therefore are not essential for Internet Connection Sharing.

Why did you check FTP Server? Was that simply because at some later time you want to do FTP transfers using ICS?

For a long time, I've played around with the DNS addresses, but it made no difference. I know what my ISP uses for those.

What sort of "computer name" did you give the server machine? Was it literally its name, or do you mean an IP address?

My Belkin PCI cards have an address box in their Properties which is blank at present and I'm wondering whether either a physical or an IP address needs to be entered there. Probably not. After all, file and printer sharing seems to work fine.

For ICS exclusively to work, do the root drives of all machines have to be set up as shared?

[kef999]

Nope. Still no joy.

I tried checking (ticking) the SMTP and POP categories in Settings. I then set up the LAN connections for auto addresses. No joy. Tried static addresses 192.168.0.1 and 2, with the DNS addresses I know for my ISP. Still no joy. Tried fiddling with the proxy server settings in LAN Settings in Connections tab of Internet Options. Still no joy.

Who's a TRUE expert on this, then? From all the people I've ever asked about this, I've never yet found any consistent answers. Everyone suggests something different.

One thing's for sure. You can't do anything with the IP addresses used by the ISP connection. They have to be left as auto because the ISP changes them on a per session basis. Yet the server machine is supposed to translate those addresses, isn't it?

I configured the client machine to connect via LAN, but should the server machine also be configured to connect via LAN, or can it just be left on its current ISP setup?

[mclaughlin21]

The DNS settings I added were nothing to do with my ISP - they relate to the downstairs 2000 pc. I assumed that my upstairs 98SE pc was not 'talking properly' to the 2000 server pc.

My computer is called 'homer' !! and the address added was '192.168.0.1'

After those details were added, the upstairs pc has never had a problem accessing the modem.

Brian

[kef999]

mclaughlin21,

Okay, so your setup differs from mine, in that your client machine runs Win98, whereas BOTH of my machines are Win2Ks. Still, bear with me.

I've made further changes but I'm still having problems. The client machine now causes the server (gateway) machine to dial up but the client times out well before the server has even made the connection with the ISP.

These are now my settings -

Server PC:

ISP CONNECTION, set to obtain IP addresses automatically and to obtain DNS addresses automatically. Sharing tab enabled. Settings/Services set to smtp and pop. Should anything be entered in the Applications tab?

LAN CONNECTION set to use IP address 192.168.0.1 subnet 255.255.255.0, default gateway 192.168.0.1, DNS server addresses completed as per known DNS addresses of ISP. Have checked the tabs in the Advanced button and they all look okay. Nothing gets entered in the WINS tab, however, and Windows queries this when I exit from the configuring.

INTERNET OPTIONS/LAN Settings left uncompleted.

Client PC:

LAN CONNECTION set to use IP address 192.168.0.2 subnet 255.255.255.0, default gateway 192.168.0.1, DNS server address 192.168.0.1. Advanced Settings tabs similar to as before (Windows again queries an empty WINS address when I exit this).

INTERNET OPTIONS/LAN Settings set to detect settings automatically (nothing else completed here; have tried using 'use proxy server' but no joy).

So, what am I still doing wrong? Both firewalls are temporarily turned off when I try this. I initiate Internet Explorer from the client and the client makes contact with the server and causes the server to begin the dial-up but the client then immediately times out and I get a 'server not found' HTML page displayed on the client.

Any idea what's causing the timeout and how I can eliminate it and make the client wait?

[mclaughlin21]

Hi again,

Server PC,
Applications tab has nothing on my pc.

However, the LAN connection -
Default gateway does not need to be completed, and there is no need for any ISP DNS settings.

Internet Options as yours.

I'm not sure re the Client PC settings as you are on 2000 on that also.

With regards the timeout - when we dial out the first time it always times out. ( I can run downstairs and hear the modem dial and connect, but the upstairs pc returns 'server not found' )
However, if we open Outlook or another web page - it 'accesses' the connection on the second attempt

Why do you need ISP values in the LAN settings?

Brian

[kef999]

Ah, it seems you have exactly the same situation that I have, then? Yes, the client always times out on the first attempt. However, if I initiate Internet Explorer or the e-mail program again, the webpages do get routed through. I took that to still be an error situation, though. Another aspect to this is that, in order to disconnect the Internet session, you have to physically go to the server machine and Disconnect THERE. You can't do it from the client. Agreed?

Perhaps, all along, I've been expecting too much of the client machine. After all, the poor old 56K dial-up modem on the server machine's a slow device.

As for using the DNS addresses in the LAN connections, well you HAVE TO put SOMETHING there, I guess, because when you select Fixed IP Address, the DNS section also reverts to fixed addresses and you're invited to insert them. Most ISPs publish their DNS primary and secondary addresses at their portal websites, so I naturally typed in those of mine. But you may be right; perhaps I can leave those particular boxes blank.

Retrospectively, I think you'll now find that smtp and pop and ftp aren't required in the Settings button of the Share tab. Give it a try.

So, it seems as though, if you use a DSL or cable modem, you have no problem getting straight through. However, if you use a dial-up modem, you've got to expect a timeout and a retry. Agreed?

[mclaughlin21]

Hi again,

Glad to see some success is coming from our sad old dialup modems - I'm totally reliant on BT for my line, and the local exchange has only 62% of the initial registrations required for Broadband access upgrading!!

Maybe around June..............

I've not come across any software that will close the client down - I use the ''4 minutes of inactivity cut off'' my ISP provides!! (or a trip downstairs).

I checked the smtp/pop boxes on the assumption that the client uses Outlook for email, and would need these 'services' - I'll try clearing them.

Brian

[kef999]

My ISP's 'period of inactivity' cutoff doesn't seem to happen as often as it used to, so when using the networked arrangement of my two machines, I'll have to make sure the server really does get disconnected from the Net when I want and expect it to. I suppose I'll have to just walk to the server machine and do it from there.

I was planning to use the client machine for teaching purposes but it looks as though, with the LAN connectivity working like this, no newcomer to IT and computing is going to be too impressed when the initial dial-up from the client always fails. It's a shame the software doesn't handle it in a slicker, more sensible way, but I guess the push is ever more toward the use of cable and DSL modems rather than slow old 56Ks.

Thanks for your indulgence in this matter, anyway.

[kef999]

mclaughlin21,

Hope you're still looking at this thread.

Yeh, I've got ICS working on my two machines now, but the client machine always times out during the dial-up process and a second launch of Internet explorer or the e-mail program is therefore always required. Additionally, there's the problem of later disconnecting from the Internet - you always have to go to the gateway machine and disconnect there. You can, I agree, allow your ISP to 'throw' you off, but that's quite wasteful and a bit risky, in my view.

You do NOT need to tick the smtp and pop sections of the Settings button in ICS, as those are for REMOTE networks, not local networking. They have no influence on dial-up ICS.

I found that, in MY setup, the client can only ever receive the routed webpages if the ISP's DNS address(es) are completed in the LAN section of BOTH machines, ie where you have to type in the IP addresses. ISP's normally publish their DNS addresses at their portal websites.

Microsoft and others glibly talk about ICS but, in truth, ICS was designed with cable and DSL in mind, not 56K. In other words, for 'always on' modems, where dial-up delays and the need to later disconnect simply do not exist.

So, basically, it's a matter of:

Auto IPs for the ISP connection.
Static IPs for the Gateway's LAN connection and the Client's LAN connection (using 192.168, etc).
Gateway address included in the Client's connection.
ISP's DNS address(es) included in BOTH LAN connections.
ISP account must be on the client as well, but set to Never Connect (otherwise, you can't send or receive e-mail).
Client configured to connect to Internet via the LAN (run the wizard).

Actually, one of the problems that remains is that, if I power on the client machine AFTER the gateway machine, the client dials out to the Internet as it boots into Windows. If you or anyone else knows how to suppress this (other than always powering on the client FIRST), do please let me know.

[mysterywolf]

congratulations on getting going...but I'm afraid you have not done it right, and face a future of problems and instability.

look at it this way....firstly forget you have a lan and other machines , and even forget you have a lan card in the main pc. then set up the main pc to go on the internet. give it an isp dial-up, with tcp/ip as using dhcp for ip (and mask), dns by dhcp or manually enter isp details. no wins. nothing in gateway. when that is known to work, setup mail and verify that works.
Note : your main pc is not an ftp server, or smtp server, or pop server so those settings are incorrect....they are only for use by something acting as those types of server. e.g if you have your own internal mail accounts, then the server would get mail from the isp for say user@isp.com and then serve mail to clients on the lan under a local alias. like exchange server on a corporate lan. but that isn't what you are after.
As far as the internet is concerned it sees only one machine of yours it deals only with that one machine and only that one machine makes dns queries... think of how many pcs there are with the same ip addresses that you have.....the truth is the isp/internet has no idea that you have any machines with those ip's...only that you have a one machine with one ip as given by the isp dhcp server. It's your ics pc that keeps track of who has asked for what and gives the response from the web back to the lan client that prompted it. So, only the ics pc gets configured for internet access -and only the modem side of it, not the lan side.
when dial-up is working ok then configure the lan side of the ics pc. static ip, no dns, no wins, blank gateway, subnet mask as appropriate (you have these three things correct).
The client - static ip, sub-mask as needs, def gateway of the ip of the lan card of the ics. no dns. no wins..... just thought of a better way for you to get the info...
Start, Help, Search ..internet connection sharing....
win2000 help gives full and quite good instructions.

[kef999]

Mysterywolf,

I in fact did all that you've suggested a long time ago and throughout I've been EXTREMELY methodical. That doesn't guarantee success, though, and it can take only one small wrong setting to prevent the system from working at all.

I've actually returned to this thread today, to point out that you don't need the ISP's DNS addresses in the gateway's LAN settings; it'll work with DNS left blank there. The Client DOES need them in the corresponding place, however. I can assure you that the setup simply will not work without those DNS addresses in the Client; I've experimented extensively with this issue. After spending literally weeks unsuccessfully trying a lot of so-called standard setups I found on the Internet (actually designed for Win98/ME, not Win2K), one of my IT contacts, much more knowledgeable than me, suggested I use the DNS addresses in the Client and, to my surprise, it worked.

One important thing I've discovered about printer sharing (not any thing to do with ICS, but still concerning peer-to-peer connections) is that shared printing won't work unless you enable NetBIOS over TCP/IP.

Believe me, I've spent a long time trying to get a reasonably satisfactory ICS setup. With a 56K modem, it's not as straightforward as Microsoft and many others make out, primarily because ICS is designed for 'always on' modems. Thus, with 56K dial-up, you encounter the timeout problem, and also the Disconnect problem. These you simply have to live with, it seems.

I strongly suspect that my settings are still not optimised but my ICS setup does at least work consistently now. I'm still keen to learn from others, though.

[mclaughlin21]

"The client - static ip, sub-mask as needs, def gateway of the ip of the lan card of the ics. no dns. no wins..... "

mysterywolf,
I currently have my client using DNS - the 'host' is my 2000pc, and I use its IP address 192.168.....as the Sever Search order. If I disable this setting the 98SE pc cannot access the net.

If it isn't necessary to use DNS, but I can't get online without it, where do I go?

Sorry for the cryptic query from a pc that is actually running ok at present!!

Brian



<P ID="edit"><FONT class="small">Edited by mclaughlin21 on 01/18/03 10:19.</FONT></P>

[mysterywolf]

firstly it is possible to get two wrongs to make a right...only it's best not to rely on it being a solid solution.
A dns server is ot something that just happens. you need to install the dns service and then configure it. I have setup various dns servers - mostly with microsoft dns- but others on occasion, and msofts is the least user friendly by far!! By that I mean that if your server was operating as a dns server, then it didn't happen by itself and you couldn;t have done it on autopilot....you would have been involved enough to realise it!. so your server is not a dns server. therefore the client dns entries cannot point to your server and work. in fact they cannot point to any dns server. only your gateway pc can. the client passes requests to the gateway pc, and the gateway pc queries the dns server on the net. the net dns server believes the request is fron the gateway pc, not your client, and gives back the answer. the gateway pc gets it and remembers who asked for it , then sends it on.
face it, the dns servers on the internet cannot give an response to your pc which is 192.168.0.2 can it ? it's not unique to you - that ip is being used worldwide by thousands like you. and that's precisely why you can use it and why its called a public ip. it's because nothing on the www should ever need to talk to such an ip - hence no mix up.

as to why you are working as you are i can only guess...but....shot in the dark...

as setup now, your client wishes to log onto the www. it can try to find hosts by use of several methods, its own cache, the cache of neighbours and servers, dns, wins (though not for www). failure to get the info results in the request eventually being sent out of the gateway although timeout might occur first. after initial failure , if it then goes outside and gets a response then the memory of that success is built into the routing table of the gateway, and maybe kept cached on the gateway as well, for future successful use.

I would read that link if i were you.

but good luck with it anyway.

[mclaughlin21]

mysterywolf,

I was kinda hoping not to have to read that link - as my 2 pc network has been working fine for months - but the more you say, the more I realise it may be down to good fortune that I got it right in the first place.

The link opens up umpteen more 'related topics' - and the more I read them, the more I appreciate my lack of knowledge!! and experience!!

Ach well - Rome wasn't built in a day.

(and we Scots assisted in that by pulling down Hadrians Wall)

Brian

[mysterywolf]

my advice would be that the time and effort spent doing it right and reading that link will be dwarfed by the time wasted by problems in the future if you don't. the comparison between the time required for each option will be as great as say that of the the time scotland spends in the world cup compared to england !!!

[kef999]

Nice one, Mysterywolf. The football dig, I mean. (No hard feelings, mclaughlin).

I have to admit I HAVE wondered about the DNS addresses being in the Client's configuration. I agree with what you say. It's not as if I've configured everything without at least giving it some thought and thinking about the logic. But, frankly, that was the only way that I managed to get ICS to work. The same goes for mclaughlin, as you've read.

Looks like I'll have to do some more mugging up and reconfiguring. So, WHERE'S this link?

[mysterywolf]

i'm afraid the link was in my imagination! i meant the help file

Start, Help, Search ..internet connection sharing

[kef999]

Originally, I searched those Help files quite extensively and certainly didn't find any details about especially configuring DNS.

I have, however, this evening found a one-page article at Microsoft's website, entitled "To configure TCP/IP to use DNS" and probably that's the kind of thing to which you're referring. Just quickly scanning it, though, it looks as though the default settings in the DNS tab are all that's required.

Unfortunately, the web address of the article is far too long to print fully here, but maybe I can find it again and point you and mclaughlin toward it.

Which connection, then, would need to be configured for DNS? Just the gateway? Or both gateway and client? It's not made clear in the article I've just found.

The address of the article is along the path:

http://www.microsoft.com/WINDOWS2000/en/professional/help/sag_TCPIP_pro etc etc.

[kef999]

I've now also had yet another look at Windows 2000 Help. The only reference I've found there to DNS is in a section called "To configure TCP/IP settings". However, after advising to complete the primary and secondary DNS server addresses in the obvious boxes, it states "To configure DNS, WINS, and other options, click Advanced". Nothing more. Well, that's not particularly helpful, is it?

There's the article I found in the professional section of Microsoft's website, the partial page address of which I've already quoted, but that page consists largely of networking techno-speak and is beyond me. Any chance of a "translation" from you, Mysterywolf?

[mclaughlin21]

Nice one, Mysterywolf. The football dig, I mean. (No hard feelings, mclaughlin).


None at all boys.

My two memories of the last World Cup were both enjoyed in a small leafy village in Turkey - the first was when the England goalkeeper
"did a Seamen" - again!!, and the second was when Hakan Sukur scored the fastest goal in 12 secs. Copious amounts of beer were consumed on those two days !!

Brian

[kef999]

With regard to the website DNS article I found, it'd be helpful if someone could explain in plain english what the following terms mean:

resolve
unqualified DNS name
DNS suffix
parent suffix
connection-specific DNS suffixes

Looking at TCP/IP Properties DNS tab on my 2K machine, it seems there's a good chance that most of the required configuration is already there by default (the DNS addresses manually entered in Properties get automatically configured into the DNS tab). Actually, I've put back the two DNS addresses in the Properties box of the gateway's LAN connection, as that's what seems to be required, according to this article.

[mysterywolf]

you should simplify it...
the client has no access to the internet, nor the www to your client. so the client has no dns server to query and has no need for entries for th dns server. all the client has access to is your gateway machine, which it asks to do stuff on its behalf. furthermore if tries communicating with an ip not local then it gets directed out thriugh the gateway. hence the gateway is the lan ip of the gateway pc.
the gateway machine has two ways to go ..the lan and external. the lan has no dns server and so no dns entries reqd. anything for a local ip gets sent out of the lan card. anything for a remote ip needs to go outside. but if the gateway ip of the gateway pc lan card is configured for its own ip then both remote and local go the same way !! so, to work properly, the lan card of the gateway pc needs to have a default gateway ip left blank.
the tcp/ip props of the device providing external comms needs to have entries for dns servers and gateway, but you don't know the gateway so leave balnk, and you might need to enter the dns, but usually the dhcp server of the isp provides all this info on dial-up automatically for you, so this option is often the one to use.

and for myself... i was born and raised only 25 miles from hadrians wall. !!!... (i had to support carlisle united for years!!!).

[kef999]

Well, Mysterywolf, you were dead right when you said that, with my and mclaughlin's machines configured in the way they are, the ICS functioning will be unreliable and unstable. Not only do I get uncontrollable repeated dial-up occurring when the client's booted up but also today I've had that happening spuriously, when both machines have been on but I've been working on a completely unrelated application on the gateway machine.

I've read your explanation and suggestion above but I can assure you that ICS simply will NOT work if I remove the gateway's address from the default gateway address field, on the gateway's LAN connection! Furthermore, the ICS will not work if I remove the DNS addresses from the client's DNS address field, either leaving it clear or substituting the gateway's address.

Clearly, my and mclaughlin's settings throughout are wrong and we've somehow managed to 'frig' it, to get it working, but as you say, on a shakey basis.

I really do want to determine the proper settings but all the logical ones have been tried and they simply don't work.

I keep finding conflicting advice. One major Microsoft publication states that, under ICS, all IP addresses MUST be set up to be obtained AUTOMATICALLY. And then DNS, WINS, etc won't need touching. But, again, I've tried that and it JUST DOESN'T WORK.

[kef999]

I'm getting really fed up with Microsoft, because it seems they publish contradictory advice on how to set up ICS in Win2K machines.

I've just returned to the professional section of Microsoft's website and found some further supposed instructions on how to set up ICS and all the configuration concerned.

In one breath, they state that, if ICS is enabled, static addressing CANNOT be used, but in the next breath, they invite you to set up the LAN connections in either static or dynamic mode. Is this just a bad piece of writing by them, or what?

I'm totally and utterly confused by the whole matter, especially as long ago I tried setting everything up for automatic (dynamic) addressing and it just didn't work. Sure, a DHCP server got listed, I recall, and APIPA-type addresses got listed in ipconfig, but the sharing simply didn't work! The client just timed out every time. Dialing up just never started.

CAN SOMEONE TRULY KNOWLEDGEABLE ON THIS SUBJECT STATE EXACTLY HOW I SHOULD CONFIGURE MY PHYSICAL SETUP!? IT MUST RATE AS ONE OF THE LEAST COMPLICATED HARDWARE ARRANGEMENTS AND (excepting the 'wrong' static configuration mentioned earlier in this thread) YET ALL THAT I'VE TRIED IN THE WAY OF CONFIGURING HAS FAILED.

[kef999]

Has my mistake been to configure the client to connect to the Internet 'via a local area network'? I mean, that seemed logical to me, but maybe I shouldn't have done that. Neither Microsoft nor anybody else with guides published on this on the Net ever mention reconfiguring the client to connect via a LAN (I ran the Internet Connection Wizard on the client and chose 'connect manually or through a LAN'). Anybody, please? Please? Please!?

[mysterywolf]

the instruction not to use static ips is for when the local network involves its own servers, gateways and other big cheese employing static ips also.

i would turn off the gateway pc.
configure ckient to use dhcp for all tcp/ip config.
turn off client
turn on gateway.
disable ics
reboot
set lan conn for dhcp for all tcp/ip
reboot
set dial out to dhcp for all tcp/ip
reboot
make sure dial out works.
enable ics on dial out conn
enable dial on demand
power off
power on
power on client
internet options, connections, create new one using lan (not auto detect)
never dial connection
lan settings ..proxy and autodetect NOT ticked

good luck

[mysterywolf]

i have double-checked this and if this makes sense...

the gateway pc - configure as though it is a bog-standard standalone pc dialing to the isp. set to use dhcp (unless the isp requires you to enter the isp dns details, in which case do that.) simply get happy that it works in that simple way and forget about ics and lan.
then set ics on - with dial-on-demand enabled.
with ics on, that pc then begins to act as a dhcp server, starting with its own lan card. it issues out these details - ip , a mask, a def gateway, dns entries. ....the ip should be e.g.192.168.0.1,2,3 etc , (1 is to its own lan card), mask 255.255.255.0, def gway and dns entries pointing to the gateway pc itself. as such, although not strictly a dhcp or dns server, the ics machine acts like it is ...the clients treat it as if it is and use it for dns queries. (unseen by the clients in fact the ics pc is passing those queries on to the isp dns.)

in my previous post there is an overkill of rebbots / power offs. personally i like to over do such stuff to be safe.

[kef999]

I don't think you're altogether correct in your assertion, Mysterywolf. Both from experimentation and also from what I've read in a Microsoft article, there's no point in setting static addresses at all if you use ICS, because the mere setting of ICS causes static addresses 192.168.0.1, etc to be automatically installed, anyway. In fact, when you first set ICS in Win2K, you get an on-screen message telling you just that. If, however, the host machine (gateway) cannot subsequently find a server, it uses APIPA addresses instead (169.254.0.0., etc) and it remains with those addresses until it does find a suitable server.

Last night, in desperation, I decided to uninstall ICS and to reinstall it and go back to allowing everything to be allocated automatically. I also removed the ISP account from the client and reinstalled that without allocating it to connect via the LAN. Result - nothing worked at all. I put the client back to 'connect via LAN' and retried - still didn't work. Sure enough, from doing ipconfig, I could see that initially the static addresses had been auto-allocated in the range 192.168, etc. But then, when I rebooted the gateway machine, this changed to the APIPA addresses.

The setup simply doesn't work and, as ever, the attempt by the client to make a connection with the gateway, and hence do dial-up, times out very rapidly. So, if anything, I'm worse off now than I EVER was. At least with static addressing throughout, I could 'frig' it to get webpages and mail downloaded to the client, albeit still unreliably.

At this stage, I'm losing the will to live. There's clearly a lot more to running ICS under Win2K with a dial-up modem than first meets the eye and, as yet, I've not come across a single person who's truly tackled it fully and who's had the setup I've described fully functioning.

I've read over your last reply and maybe I'll give THAT a go.

[kef999]

Further, I've just read, in an edition of the UK magazine PC World, under a section on Windows 2000 local area networking, that:

"For small home and business networks, APIPA provides hassle-free automatic network configuration most of the time, but it can only be used on networks that aren't connected to the Internet".

So, I think I'll stick with static addresses.

Mclaughlin21, can you explain a little bit more about your description "I had to enable DNS and add my Win2000 computer name as host and DNS server search order as 192.168.0.1"? What do really mean by this and in which tabs did you set that up? I think you said that was on your Win98 client, so are the configuration tabs there the same as you find in Win2k?

[mclaughlin21]

TCP/IP Properties within the Win 98SE client has the following
IP address - specified as 192.168.0.2 with subnet mask 255.255.255.0
WINS Configuration - Disable WINS Resolution is checked.
Gateway - 192.168.0.1 has been added
DNS Configuration - Enable is checked, host is 'homer' - my 2000 pc's name! - DNS Search Order has had 192.168.0.1 added
NetBIOS - greyed out
Advanced - Allow Binding to ATM - No
Bindings - Client for Microsoft Networks & File and Print Sharing for M/S Networks are both checked.

This is the only way I've managed to get the client to access the downstairs dialup modem - at the second try!

I'm tempted to try mysterywolfs' post of 20/1 @ 22.55 and try again from scratch - I would like to see the two machines configured at optimum. At worst I could return to my present settings if needed.

Brian

[mclaughlin21]

If it 'aint broke don't fix it........ the saying goes!!!!

Followed the post to a letter, including the reboots, and now I can't even get ICS!!

I get to,
"Enable ics .....
"Enable dial on......

and I get prompt that "ICS will set IP address to 192.168.0.1", say OK - then I get the following error

"Error 783. ICS cannot be enabled. The LAN connection selected as the private network is either not present or is disconnected from the network. Please ensure the LAN adaptor is connected before enabling ICS."

What now mysterywolf?

Brian

[mclaughlin21]

Me again.....!!

Changed client back to static IP..192.168.0.2 and previous settings, and 2000 pc instantly enables ICS, thus allowing 98SE back online.
I have to stay with these settings 'til I can figure out an alternative.

Brian

[kef999]

mclaughlin,

Just a thought - has your Win98 machine been specifically configured to connect to the Internet via a LAN? The only real difference between your setup and mine is that you're using a Win98 machine as the client, whereas I'm using a Win2K machine. And, for mine to work at all, I definitely have to run the Internet Connection wizard on my client and, in it, set up a link to the Internet "through a local area network". Without doing this, the client will obviously try its own COM ports instead and will fail to find a connection. An alternative place to do this part of the configuring of the client is in Internet Options, Settings button.

One other definite conclusion is that initially, you MUST have the ISP account also on the client. When you configure it to connect via the LAN, Windows automatically removes the ISP listing from Internet Options, Connections and also from Network & Dial-Up Connections (or its Win98 equivalent). Without the ISP account on the client, it's impossible to use Outlook Express (or another e-mail program).

Yeh, so I also found exactly what YOU found and I've now gone back to using static addresses on all but the ISP connection on the gateway.

One other thing I discovered is that you MUST reboot each machine from ground zero before the new settings will take effect.

My overall conclusion is that, when you're using a 56K modem, the best way to use ICS is to always dial up to the ISP on the GATEWAY first of all, and to initiate Internet Explorer or the mail program on the client only when the connection to the ISP has fully established on the gateway. In that way, you avoid the timeout problem and the need to re-dial. It's a *** to have to do it that way but then later you have to go to the gateway to disconnect it from the Internet, anyway, so it's much the same. (Okay, you rely on the ISP throwing you off, but personally I wouldn't rely on that).

It seems to me that, from observation, ICS under Win2K is intended primarily for 'always on' modems, where timeouts simply aren't relevant.

Incidentally, if you disable Enable On-Demand Dialing, it'll prevent spurious dial-up from the client. You don't need on-demand dial-up if you always initially dial up from the gateway instead and then just allow the webpages to route through, as I've described.

[kef999]

mclaughlin/mysterywolf,

take a look at:

www.ntcompatible.com/forums/viewtopic.php?t=24038

[mysterywolf]

I'm sorry to hear of the ongoing problems. The instructions are straight from Ms docs including the W2K help (search for 'internet connection sharing'.
I have now tried ics myself using a w2k and 98 client, trying to avoid any assumptions based on previous knowledge/experience and simply following blindly the MS instructions.
It all worked as it should..which does not give any certainty...who knows what gets thrown up by individual cases?.....but it does show that it can work when set up as officially decreed!
The facts that when ics is enabled it reports that the lan nic can't be accessed, or that spurious attempts to dial out occur even though only the connection created to specifically be used when firing up IE, suggests basic problems elsewhere than ICS, requiring ICS to be 'doctored' to even partly work. e.g. if an ip, subnet mask, dns config is incorrectly set for local network activity, then a local host can be wrongly identified as remote and data will be automatically routed out through the default gateway, thus triggering a 'spurious' dialout.

i hope that there is no confusion over config of the normal lan network settings and a specific lan connection set up for use of the internet connection for IE.

since several clients can connect to the web at the same time using ICS it should be apparent that the ISP would not allow a dial-up account to logged in more than once at the same time, and so surely the ISP account should only exist on the ICS machine alone? To find it neccessary for clients really points to it being a sticking plaster fix for a more basic problem.

But, I wish you luck in it all !

As for the link to that doc re: problems with nat. Valid though it is, I don't believe it applies in this case.

[mclaughlin21]

http://www.practicallynetworked.com/sharing/

thanks for all your input mysterywolf regarding this subject.

I've read several articles and followed several pointers on the setup of ICS over the last week, and it is clear that some situations don't follow the expected paths!!

I got your walkthrough up and running by leaving the client ON whilst checking "enabling the host to allow ics sharing and on demand dial up". The IP address allocated to the client though, was not in the right region - I had to go back in and reboot several times to eventually get it on the same range as the server.

By combining your route with that of the above link, I am now on the setup most like that intended by using ics & automatic addressing.

The above link also gave options on how to allocate addresses manually and automatically for the client - and those manually were those I was using - ie using the server address as gateway and using the computer name as 'host'.

I was probably 95% correct to start with, but the last 5% doesn't feel any easier in attaining or obvious - now there is a cryptic statement!!

It is a hard learning curve - especially when a home network of 2 pc's doesn't offer too many options or real problems - but it is still nice to know that there are people out there willing to offer good advice when you ask for it.

Thanks again

Brian

[mysterywolf]

you're welcome.

glad you're nearly sorted....when you get fully confident in a working method, maybe you could undo it all, then redo it whilst documenting a step-by-step. it would be handy for you in the future but a thing of great value to a lot of people who post on ics problems!!!

[kef999]

Mclaughlin,

I've read your latest postings with great interest. That practicallynetworked.com is a site I visited about a week ago and I downloaded, printed out and used its instructions. However, I did NOT make any progress with it whatever. As with so many such guides on the Internet, they're untried and most of them unworkable. I suspect that, with what you've configured now, mclaughlin, it may SEEM to work, but I bet you anything it won't continue to work properly and, in the end, you'll go back yet again (like I did) to static addresses.

Mysterywolf,

You said that you set up a Win98/Win2K configuration and, using auto addressing, got it all to work. Well, first of all, can you let us know what sort of modem you're using for that test? Is it a 56K dial-up, cable, or DSL? Second, if you think you got it fully working straightaway, can you not let us know your settings (both Win98's and Win2K's)?

Unless you know of a crucial configuration setting that mclaughlin and I have completely missed (and which is never mentioned in any of the guides on ICS), I cannot believe that you've managed to get it going in auto mode. As far as I can see, if a 56K dial-up modem is in use, you can't avoid the timeout.

[EDVINNIUS]

This is a very long thread. Didn't read all of it. If you have a firewall e.g. Norton installed, you must make your clients trusted computers first. Otherwise ICS will not work. Go to the DOS box on each client. Enter IPCONFIG and you will see the IP address of the client. Go to the server and enter
all these IPadresses as "trusted" addresses in your firewall. Hope this helps. Ed

[auntieflorrie]

it certainly helps hackers. that action is to allow file/printer sharing on the npf machine.
the npf manual gives the method that doesn't make the firewall pointless.