Happy July 4th! & Freezes - On or Off Web (WME)

[Nana]

Hi everybody!
First & foremost - I'd like to wish all my neighbours south of the border & around the world:
<font color=red>HAPPY INDEPENDENCE DAY!</font color=red>
I hope all Americans, wherever you are today, have a very safe & happy Fourth of July. Your 226th Birthday!
Nana /images/forums/icons/smile.gif

And now onto my problem, sorry.
WinMe, IE 5.5SP2, IBM NetVista 2284 62U
I've been putting up with freezes to my system for some time, but it's finally made me /images/forums/icons/crazy.gif! It freezes while I'm on the net, it freezes while I'm writing emails, it freezes while 'Spider' is being played. . . You get the drift. The machine becomes so frozen that the only way to turn it off is to click the power button. I'm can't get a response from my mouse or any keys.
The only things I've downloaded & installed lately are virus updates. No viruses have been spotted. 'AdAware' comes up clean.
Please, can anybody help?

Here is my daily maintenance:
1) Before leaving the net for the day, I go to Symantec to download the daily virus updates from 'The Intelligent Updater'. (My 'Live Update' functions strangely - topic for another post!)
2) When I finish on the net I use Tweak IE. It cleans out my cookies (except for the 12 I keep), it clears the history, it empties index.dat to 32kb and it empties the TIF folder.
3) Then I use (a) Disk Cleanup, (b) ScanDisk (standard) and (c) Disk Defragmenter.
4) Finally, I run a virus scan - NAV 2002.

I've included the most recent log files generated by the automatic 'ScanDisk' after a bad shutdown. There were 5 other bad shutdowns between June 21/02 and July 1/02, but I didn't include them here. They were all 'FSInfoSector' problems.

Below the date & time, every entry also includes the following info:
ScanDisk used the following options:
Standard test
Check dates and times
Automatically fix errors
Drive IBM_PRELOAD (C:) contained the following errors:
__________________________________
Log file generated at 20:57 on 6/21/2002.

The C:\WINDOWS\Application Data\Identities\{A9262426-E75F-4247-BE06-C778566FA0D2}\Microsoft\Outlook Express
folder contained incorrect information about Name.dbx (MS-DOS name NAME.DBX):
The last-modified date or time for the file or folder was invalid.
Resolution: Repair the error
Results: Error was corrected as specified above.
_________________________________
<font color=blue>The OE error above happens every time I compact my messages. Before I start to compact, I make sure that I've checked 'work offline' because I have a cable modem connection.</font color=blue>
_________________________________
Log file generated at 23:55 on 7/1/2002.

ScanDisk found 32768 bytes of data in 1 lost file fragment(s).
Resolution: Discard lost file fragment(s)
Results: Error was corrected as specified above.
_________________________________
Log file generated at 01:58 on 7/2/2002.

The drive contained an error in its FSInfoSector.
Resolution: Repair the error
Results: Error was corrected as specified above.
_________________________________
<font color=blue>At this point I disabled 'smooth scripting' & reduced my 'hardware acceleration' to the lowest setting. (Both instructions taken from the troubleshooting help file in WinMe.)</font color=blue>
_________________________________
Log file generated at 09:38 on 7/2/2002.

The drive contained an error in its FSInfoSector.
Resolution: Repair the error
Results: Error was corrected as specified above.
________________________________
Log file generated at14:34 on 7/4/2002.

The drive contained an error in its FSInfoSector.
Resolution: Repair the error
Results: Error was corrected as specified above.
__________________________________

As you can see, the FSInfoSector error is the most common one. I have no idea what to do to correct the problem, nor any idea of where to look.
Any help would be very appreciated.
Thank you.
Nana /images/forums/icons/smile.gif

[Andy-S]

Nana,

Unfortunately I can't help directly with your freeze issue but I would like to point out that you may be doing excessive maintenance on the drive. This itself can reduce the performance of the system (see the details below regarding taskmon and defrag).

I would recommend defragging weekly at most and if you're antivirus is running live checks then again a full scan once a week is probably enough. Someone else may have a different opinion but after reading the details below you may want to at least re-consider your defragment schedule.

Defragmenting a drive:

Defrag and Taskmon - Defragging a hard drive in Windows 98 can take hours (and I do mean hours) after a FAT 32 conversion but there is a good reason for that. Have you noticed that after a while (and a few defrags) that your applications load faster? No your not going crazy. This is supposed to happen and here's why.

In your Registry there is a utility being loaded called TaskMon (C:\Windows\Taskmon.exe). TaskMon monitors your hard drives disk access patterns during program loads and logs the information to a hidden Windows directory called APPLOG. When you go to defrag your hard drive, Disk Defragmentor uses the information found in this directory to optimize your system by placing all the files that a specific program needs to load in the same area on the hard disk. This reduces the number of lengths the disk needs to seek, which account for a large chuck of load times for any application.

TaskMon collects data as you use applications and adapts to optimize the applications you run most frequently. Example: If you run Netscape more often than I.E. 4.0, Defrag will concentrate on optimizing Netscape program loading vs. I.E. Program loading. After you finish defragging the application (s) should open faster.

This section provided by **** Miller - Defrag will seem much slower than in Win95, relocating EVERY sector at the start of each defrag session. That's NOT a problem. It is packing the new and changed files at the front of the disk rather than at the back, so the beginning of defrag is more busy than in Win95. But the tail end of the defrag will be correspondingly faster and the total time is not increased. Why the change? With the most-recently-accessed files (which usually are also the most-accessed ones) "up front," disk accesses will run faster.

In order for TaskMon to perform at its best you need to run Windows 98 for a good week or so allowing TaskMon to build and update the APPLOG file (s) and collect all the necessary information that it needs. This log is updated as you use your programs so performing a defrag right after you load Windows 98 will NOT show a significant increase in your most commonly used applications.


Cheers
Andy

[Nana]

Andy,

Thanks for the information. It certainly sounds as if I'm being too zealous with my maintenance. I'll change my routine and defragment just once a week, as suggested.

Thank you again.

Nana /images/forums/icons/smile.gif

[Nana]

Hello again,

Can anyone tell me what (and where) the FSInfoSector is?

Thank you,
Nana /images/forums/icons/smile.gif

[TonyKlein]

It's the "Free Space Information Sector", and it tells the system how much free space is left on the drive.
FAT32 has a bug that occasionally causes this sector to be written with incorrect information (particularly after a lockup or hang that requires a hard reset), and it then misreports the amount of free space available on the drive.

Scandisk routinely corrects this.

Cheers, Tony

[Nana]

Tony,

Thank you very much for the info. Do you think the error being reported in my ScanDisk Log (above) is because I had to do a hard reset and not the reason that the system locked up in the first place? If that's the case, do you know where else I could look for clues as to what's causing the freezes?
Also, is the FSInfoSector somewhere I can (safely) look at?

Thank you, again.
Nana /images/forums/icons/smile.gif

[TonyKlein]

Nana,

Your first assumption is right: the error is caused by the fact you had to do a hard reset, so you don't need to look at the FSInfoSector thing itself.

System freezes are usually pretty hard to troubleshoot.
It's a painstaking trial and error process.

Do these freezes only occur when you're on line?

[Nana]

Tony,

No, the freezes don't always come when I'm online. They also occur when my hubbie gets into his 'Spider' game playing mode.

Occasionally they happen when I'm writing emails using what I call 'fancy' stationery. Not all of the 'fancy' ones, just the ones using the most effects.

I use a cable modem hookup, so I guess I'm really online all the time, aren't I? Most of the freezes do occur when I'm actually surfing, though.

Thank you for your help, Tony. It's very much appreciated.

Nana /images/forums/icons/smile.gif

[TonyKlein]

Nana,

Maybe we should have a look at your startups, although I'm sure you've done that yourself already:

Go to Start/run, and type Msinfo32, followed by OK.
Go to Software Environment/Startup Programs.
Click Edit/'Select all', and then 'copy'
Now paste the contents in your post.

Also, download <a target="_blank" href=http://www.definitivesolutions.com/bhodemon.htm>BHODemon</a>

Launch the program and tell us what Browser Helper Objects it detects.

It's also a good idea to install the latest VIA 4in1 drivers, if you have a motherboard requiring those.

[Nana]

Hi Tony,

Here's the first part:

*StateMgr c:\windows\system\restore\statemgr.exe All Users HKLM\Software\Microsoft\Windows\CurrentVersion\Run Services

ATnotes c:\progra~1\atnotes\atnotes.exe .DEFAULT Startup

devldr16.exe c:\windows\system\devldr16.exe All Users HKLM\SOFTWARE\Microsoft\Windows\CurrentVersion\Run

NAV Agent c:\progra~1\norton~1\navapw32.exe All Users HKLM\SOFTWARE\Microsoft\Windows\CurrentVersion\Run

NAV DefAlert c:\progra~1\norton~1\defalert.exe All Users HKLM\SOFTWARE\Microsoft\Windows\CurrentVersion\Run

PCHealth c:\windows\pchealth\support\pchschd.exe -s All Users HKLM\SOFTWARE\Microsoft\Windows\CurrentVersion\Run

Run StartupMonitor startupmonitor.exe All Users HKLM\SOFTWARE\Microsoft\Windows\CurrentVersion\Run

ScanRegistry c:\windows\scanregw.exe /autorun All Users HKLM\SOFTWARE\Microsoft\Windows\CurrentVersion\Run

ScriptBlocking "c:\program files\common files\symantec shared\script blocking\sbserv.exe" -reg All Users HKLM\Software\Microsoft\Windows\CurrentVersion\Run Services

SystemTray systray.exe All Users HKLM\SOFTWARE\Microsoft\Windows\CurrentVersion\Run

Thanks,
Nana /images/forums/icons/smile.gif

[Nana]

Tony,

There is only the one one BHO detected. Here it is:

Details for BHO C:\Program Files\Norton AntiVirus\NavShExt.dll
----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
CLSID: {BDF3E430-B101-42AD-A544-FADC6B084872}
File Size (bytes): 102400
Time Accessed: 2002/7/6 0:0:0
Time Modified: 2001/10/26 6:8:46
Time Created: 2001/10/26 6:8:46
Drive Number: 2
Comments:
CompanyName: Symantec Corporation
FileDescription: Norton AntiVirusNAVShellExt Module
FileVersion: 8.00.6
InternalName: NAVShellExt
LegalCopyright: Copyright (c) 2000-2001 Symantec Corporation. All rights reserved.
LegalTrademarks:
OLESelfRegister:
OriginalFilename: NAVShExt.dll
PrivateBuild:
ProductName: Norton AntiVirus
ProductVersion: 8.00.6
SpecialBuild:

Thanks again,
Nana /images/forums/icons/smile.gif

[TonyKlein]

Well, as I more or less expected, from the prudent person I know you are ( /images/forums/icons/wink.gif ), that looks absolutely impeccable, and there's nothing there that I can see that would be likely to cause these freezes.

As for the VIA drivers, first you need to determine whether you have those.

The easiest and simplest way to determine the manufacturer of chipset you have on your motherboard is to look in your motherboard manual. Almost always this information is listed in the front of the motherboard manual in the specifications section.

You can also go to My Computer in Microsoft Windows, then control Panel, System, Device Management, System Devices. The model name will be listed under System Devices.

If you have them you can download the latest 4 in 1 drivers <a target="_blank" href=http://www.viaarena.com/?PageID=2>here</a>

If you don't, you obviously you don't need to install them.

[Nana]

Tony,

First of all, you made me /images/forums/icons/blush.gif! Thank you for the compliment, it was very kind.
Here is the information about my VIA drivers. It looks like only this one - VIA Tech VT82C686 PCI to ISA bridge - needs a driver??? Would that be right? I don't have a manual - that I'm aware of. IBM is the OEM & everything came assembled. It's a NetVista 2284 62U.
Is that driver one that I can find at your link? This kind of 'looking after my system' is very new to me. It makes me a tad nervous, so I want to be sure I dl & install the correct driver. Sorry about the information overload, but I want you to be able to see exactly what I'm seeing.

************************************************** *
VIA CPU to AGP controller
Device type: System devices
Manufacturer: VIA
Hardware version: 000
Device status: This device is working properly.
Driver Provider: VIA Technologies
Driver date: 08/01/2000
No driver files are required or have been loaded for this device. To update the driver files for this device, click update driver.

VIA Tech Standard CPU to PCI Bridge
Device type: System devices
Manufacturer: VIA
Hardware version: 02
Device status: This device is working properly.
Driver Provider: VIA Technologies Inc.
Driver date: 08/01/2000
No driver files are required or have been loaded for this device. To update the driver files for this device, click update driver.

VIA Tech VT82C686 PCI to ISA bridge
Device type: System devices
Manufacturer: VIA
Hardware version: 034
Device status: This device is working properly.
Driver Provider: Microsoft
Driver date: 06/08/2000
To view details about the driver files loaded for this device click Driver File Details. To update the driver files for this device, click update driver.
Provider: Microsoft
File version: 4.90.3000
Driver files: C:\WINDOWS\SYSTEM\ISAPNP.VXD
ISAPNP Virtual Device (Version 4.0)

VIA Tech VT82C686 Power Management Controller
Device type: System devices
Manufacturer: VIA
Hardware version: 048
Device status: This device is working properly.
Driver Provider: Microsoft
Driver date: 06/08/2000
No driver files are required or have been loaded for this device. To update the driver files for this device, click update driver.
*********************************************

That's it. Sorry it took so long to get back to you, but I had to type all this out - it wouldn't copy & paste, darn it.
Thanks a million, Tony. I appreciate this help so much.

Nana /images/forums/icons/smile.gif

[TonyKlein]

That's abolutely correct.

You do turn out to have the VIA drivers, and it's important to install the latest driver update.

Here's a direct download link: <a target="_blank" href=http://downloads.viaarena.com/drivers/4in1/VIA_4IN1_V440V(a)P3.zip>http://downloads.viaarena.com/drivers/4in1/VIA_4IN1_V440V(a)P3.zip</a>

Close down unneccessary programs, especially your antivirus, and install it.

During setup, check all components, and don't forget to check the 'enable DMA' checkbox as wel.

You can't go wrong.

Good luck, Tony

[TonyKlein]

I just installed it myself, as I still turned out to have the 4.38, and I can tell you that nothing exploded.../images/forums/icons/wink.gif

As I said, the default options are fine; just leave everything checked.

Watch how your system behaves the coming days; hopefully there'll be a difference.

[Nana]

Tony,

Sorry for the delay. My family just arrived & wanted dinner. /images/forums/icons/frown.gif I'm going to have to postpone the dl & installation until tomorrow when I have peace & quiet again.

After I finsh tomorrow, I'll post back to let you know how it went. (That's if my computer doesn't explode! /images/forums/icons/crazy.gif) I'll also keep you informed about how the system functions over the next few days.

Thank you again for all your help, Tony.

Nana /images/forums/icons/smile.gif

[Nana]

Tony,

Hi, again! I have dled & installed the VIA 4in1 driver(s). At the moment I'm having a small problem. The only driver that updated was VIA CPU to AGP controller.

BUT, there was an error while Windows was updating its configuration files on reboot, so maybe that's why only one updated. If I have to ask for <font color=red>help!!!</font color=red> (most likely), I'll post the exact wording etc. of the error. For now, I'll keep plugging away to see if I can rectify the problem on my own. /images/forums/icons/frown.gif

BTW: I did follow your advice:
"Close down unneccessary programs, especially your antivirus, and install it.
During setup, check all components, and don't forget to check the 'enable DMA' checkbox as well."

Thank you again, Tony, for all the time & trouble you're going through to help me.

Nana /images/forums/icons/smile.gif

[TonyKlein]

Nana,

The only thing I can advise you, is to reboot, redownload the update (just in case), and reinstall.

It should really be a breeze.

[Nana]

Tony,

Thanks for the reply. I still have the Zip I dled yesterday, so I'll reinstall if I can't get it to work. I have one more thing I'm going to try first.

Nana /images/forums/icons/smile.gif

[Nana]

Tony,

I think I had a succesful installation the second time around. I'm not sure because it's still only the one system device that got updated:
VIA CPU to AGP controller, Date 03/20/2002
It's now version 4.2.0.0 instead of 4.03D.

Does that make sense to you - that only one VIA system device updated? It was easy the second time - no error. I think the first error happened because IBM puts all their 'stuff' in IBM folders, and the install Wizard was looking for a file (viamach.cat) in C:\Windows\System. I copied viamach.cat to where it expected it, et voila! I hope that was OK? Anyway, no freeze ups - yet!

Thank you so much, Tony.

Nana /images/forums/icons/smile.gif

[TonyKlein]

I think that, if you got no error messages, your install probably went OK, and that all neccessary components were updated.

Let's wait and see whether these new VIA drivers make the difference.

Cheers, Tony

[Nana]

Tony,

I'm watching carefully. So far, so good!
Should only the one driver have been updated - the VIA CPU to AGP controller driver?

Thanks again.
Nana /images/forums/icons/smile.gif

[TonyKlein]

You just let it do its thing. It knows what to do, I'm sure.. /images/forums/icons/wink.gif

Lets wait and see.

[Nana]

OK.
Actually, that's good - that it knows what to do - because I sure don't!

[Nana]

Tony,

Unfortunately, I just had my first freeze. /images/forums/icons/mad.gif I was on the net with 2 windows open. One was this site, the other was the home page for Smart Computing Magazine. I was hovering over a hyperlink (on the Smart Computing site), just ready to click it and - <font color=red>bang!</font color=red>

Oh, well. I'll keep plugging away. It was the first freeze since I installed the new driver(s) yesterday, so maybe it was a fluke. /images/forums/icons/laugh.gif All I can do is try, right?

Nana /images/forums/icons/crazy.gif

[TonyKlein]

I forget, but have you already tried "Repairing" Internet Explorer?

Control Panel &gt; Software Add\Remove &gt; MS Internet Explorer &gt; Remove.
You then get an option to Repair your installation of IE.

Very useful: I do it regularly.

[Nana]

Tony,

Here I am again and so soon! People will start talking if we keep this up much longer. /images/forums/icons/laugh.gif

Anyway, fifteen minutes ago, I checked who was online & saw that you were. (After 2AM, isn't it? It's after 8PM here and my son, DIL & granddaughter are still in our pool.) I looked at a few more posts, then tried to come back here to see if you had posted anything.

So, there I was - hovering over the hyperlink to this page from the Win95/98/Me OS Forum directory page - when it happened. <font color=red>BANG!</font color=red> Frozen solid - again!

Funny that I was doing the exact same thing both times, the only difference was that this time there was just one window open. Do you think it's more than a coincidence? One thing's for sure - it's frustrating!

Any pearls, Tony? I'm sure you're fed up with me and my problems by now, but I really do appreciate the help. Even if all you can tell me is to learn to live with it.

Thanks again,
Nana /images/forums/icons/frown.gif

PS: I wrote this note over 1 hour ago (offline), before I saw your answer. I decided to post it regardless.

Regarding IE Repair, I ran it about four or five weeks ago and all was fine - then. I'll do it again now and post back with the results later. (The family is coming in from their swim and want dinner. Somehow, I missed out here. They swim & I cook? Hmm.)

Nana /images/forums/icons/smile.gif

[TonyKlein]

Well, as I said, these freezes are often pretty hard to troubleshoot.../images/forums/icons/crazy.gif

I do have this for you, from http://www.mvps.org/inetexplorer/internet_explorer.htm

Internet connection 'freezes' - data going to and from modem seems to pause:

"Do you have an unused network card installed on your computer? If so, disable it via device manager.

Also, the following settings can sometimes help (my grateful thanks go to Steve Winograd for his advice and guidance about the following - you can find Steve's FAQ site here - an excellent source of Networking information How to Improve Browsing Performance in Internet Explorer (http://sfwinograd.home.attbi.com/faq.htm>http://sfwinograd.home.attbi.com/faq.htm</a>):

Add)

[Nana]

Tony,

Sorry it took so long for me to get back to you, but I've had a revolting day. /images/forums/icons/crazy.gif I am partially disabled and some days are pretty dreadful. Luckily, most are alright. Enuf said!

Well, it looks like IE5.5SP2 has its problems. I think I mentioned that I had repaired it less than 2 months ago, but it looks like things have changed in the meantime.
When I tried to repair it last night, here is what came up:

Internet Explorer 5.5 could not be repaired.
Please run Setup again to reinstall all components.

I clicked on Details:
Internet Explorer 5.5 could not be repaired due to the following errors:
Version 5.50.4522.1800 of file MSIDENT.DLL exists but the version has to be greater than 5.50.4807.2300
Version 5.50.4522.1800 of file MSIDNTLD.DLL exists but the version has to be greater than 5.50.4807.2300

First of all, I searched my HDD to check the two files. What a surprise - they were right! /images/forums/icons/laugh.gif Next, I spent ages at Google but the files I found were either older or the same version. Stumped at every turn! I finally gave in to the inevitable /images/forums/icons/frown.gif (Microsoft) and dled IE6. I've been holding off because I figured I had enough problems already that I didn't need to invite potential new ones. Maybe it will help, who knows? I haven't installed it yet, though. I'll do that tomorrow.

Regarding <font color=red>Network Drivers</font color=red>:
I checked in Device Manager. Would you believe there are 5 of them? IBM preinstalled them all. I knew they were there, but didn't think they would cause problems.
There is:
Accton EN1207D Series PCI Fast Ethernet Adapter, which I kept.
2 AOL drivers, which I removed.
Dial-Up Adapter, which I disabled.
Dial-Up Adapter #2 (VPM support), which I disabled.

While I was looking at Device Manager, I noticed something different - I think. At least, I don't remember noticing it before. The Conexant modem is mentioned in two places.
Category HCFMODEMWDM and the info under it says:
<font color=red>Conexant PCI Modem Enumerator</font color=red> - I disabled this.
Category Modem and the info under it says:
<font color=red>Conexant HCF V90 56K Data Fax PCI Modem</font color=red> - I disabled this.
The only place the Ethernet is mentioned is under Network Adapters where it says:
<font color=red>Accton EN1207D Series PCI Fast Ethernet Adapter</font color=red>
Would these entries be correct?

I use only the Ethernet card as my ISP is cable. Do you think the combination of removing the two AOL adapters, disabling the two Dial-Up adapters and disabling both entries for the Conexant Modem will be sufficient? I realize you're doing what you can and cannot make promises that anything will work, but do you think that I have done enough with these items?

I haven't tried your second suggestion yet - adding an IP address to my network card. I'll see if these other changes help before I do much more, I think. I did read the link you gave me to Microsoft. I've seen it before and had already pared things down to the bare minimum, but today I disabled sound as well. I'll see if that does anything. I also spent quite a long time reading everything at Steve's site. Very interesting site & a knowledgeable individual, for sure.

Thank you again. I'll have to send you several dozen donuts for all your help!
Nana /images/forums/icons/smile.gif

[TonyKlein]

Nana,

Your error message when repairing IE is very, very common.
As you install and remove software, dlls do get routinely replaced, and when that happens to IE files, the repair tool can't finish its job.

If you still have the Internet Explorer cabs on your drive, you can extract the two dlls quite easily using SFC.

Take a look at <a target="_blank" href=http://forums.techguy.org/showthread.php?s=&threadid=77439&highlight=scrrun.dll>this forum thread</a> to see how you go about that.

Alternatively, you can reinstall IE 5.5 SP2 on top of itself, but you need to fool IE setup into believing that you're running an older version of IE, or it won't work.

Do this:

Go to Start &gt; Run, and type Regedit.

Drill down to HKEY_LOCAL_MACHINE\Software\Microsoft\Internet Explorer.

Doubleclick the 'version' value in the right pane, and edit it to change the 5.50 part to 5.00.

IE Setup will now think you're running an older version of Internet Explorer, and you'll be able to run IE setup and reinstall IE in its entirety.

About the hardware part, that isn't exactly my 'bag', but I'certain many people here will be able to offer you more advice on that.

[Nana]

Tony,

Hi! First I'll try to find the two *.dll files that are outdated - if available. I'm fairly sure that I have IE cabs.
I use WinMe, so I don't have SFC. I use MSConfig to extract files. I know you are more than aware of that - you just got up too early! /images/forums/icons/laugh.gif

If that doesn't work, I'll try trick number 2 and reinstall 5.5 over itself. I'll do both later today as it's after 3AM now. I can't do anything that requires any concentration.

I'll let you know what happens.

Thanks,
Nana /images/forums/icons/smile.gif

[synapsy82]

Hello there Nana,
juz out of curiosity, where are the scan log files located?

Thanks

[Nana]

synapsy82,

Mine are located here C:\SCANDISK.LOG.

Nana /images/forums/icons/smile.gif

[Nana]

Hello everyone,
As can be seen earlier in this thread, I'm having lots of problems with freezes. Tony has been a tremendous help to me all the way through this maze I've been navigating.
And then I ran into a problem. Stupidly, I've been attempting to solve it on my own - only to make more of a tangled mess. Now, I think I've trussed, cooked, sliced and served my goose. So, after I've created this mess on my own, I'm asking for help to straighten it out, please.

Because most of the freezes happened while I was online, I attempted to repair IE5.5SP2 version 5.50.4807.2300. Unfortunately, I wasn't able to. It asked for more recent versions of two DLL files.
I recovered the two files from CABS to see what version numbers I had there. Naturally, they both turned out to be the rejected ones I already had, therefore no use.
The next thing I tried was Tony's suggestion to change the version of IE from 5.50 to 5.00 in HKEY_LOCAL_MACHINE\Software\Microsoft\Internet Explorer
I did this, but I still got the unfinished installation error message.
I've done a search on Google to find more recent versions, but no luck. Currently I have version 5.50.4522.1800 of both <font color=red>msident.dll</font color=red> and <font color=red>msidntld.dll</font color=red>. It's asking for version <font color=red>5.50.4807.2300</font color=red>, or higher.
After coming to these roadblocks, I decided to install IE6. Off I went to shop at Microsoft's IE6 site. When I attempted the IE6 installation, I got this error message:

"A previous installation has pending work requiring a reboot. You need to restart your computer to complete that installation before running IE SetUp. SetUp will now close."

I dutifully rebooted and once again tried to install IE6. Still no dice! Same message. /images/forums/icons/frown.gif

For the second time, I decided to try to repair IE5.5SP2. Of course I got the same response - it wants those two gosh darn updated DLL files.
Next choice: Reinstall a previous version of IE. I hoped this would complete whatever unfinished installation wasn't allowing SetUp in IE6 to run. It installed IE5.5 version 5.50.4134.0100. As an unexpected benefit(?), it removed the entry for IE in Add/Remove Programs, although it kindly added one for OE5. That one had been missing.

Oh well, I thought, it doesn't matter because. . . .
<font color=red>Finally</font color=red>, all is well with the world and I can install IE6 and it will add itself to the Add/Remove Programs list and everything will be OK again and the freezes will stop and. . . .
<font color=red>Not so fast!</font color=red> I got that same blasted reboot message.

So, on to the next step.
From there, I went to Windows Update to collect everything that was missing from my recent downgrade to IE5.5. First thing I tried to do was to dl & install SP2. Surprise! I got a similar error message:

"A previous program installation was never completed. You need to restart your computer to complete that installation before running SetUp. SetUp will now close."

Reboot and. . . Nothing!
By now I'm ready to tear my hair out - not a pretty thought! I have no idea what 'uncompleted application' it's referring to, but I'm guessing it wants me to find those two files to finish repairing IE5.5SP2.
At this time, I figured a good dose of System Restore was in order. Get my system back to before I tried to repair IE5.5SP2 the first time. When I click on System Restore, I get another marvelous message:

"System Restore cannot run until you restart the computer. Please restart the computer, and then run System Restore again."

<font color=blue>Does one of the programmers at Microsoft have shares in my local electric company?</font color=blue>
Anyway, they're wrong! Restarting my computer didn't change one thing! Now System Restore is giving me grief, too!
<font color=red>Arrrrgh!</font color=red>

My final idea - I've run out after this:
I restored the registry from 3 days earlier. That brought back the damaged IE5.5SP2 as well as returning the entry to Add/Remove Programs - minus 'restore the previous version' from the menu. It didn't do anything for System Restore, though.

Here is what I would like help with, please /images/forums/icons/smile.gif:
1) get System Restore functioning <font color=red>and</font color=red>
2) install IE6 <font color=red>or</font color=red>
3) make it possible to repair IE5.5SP2

If I can find and replace those two files - <font color=red>msident.dll</font color=red> and <font color=red>msidntld.dll</font color=red>, version number <font color=red>5.50.4807.2300</font color=red> - might I be in business? Maybe that would allow SetUp IE6 to run? Right now, I'm tied up three ways from Sunday.
Do I try to manually remove IE? I don't think it's possible in WinMe, but maybe it is?
What can I do about System Restore? Much as I hate using it - it wreaks havoc with NAV - it would be very handy right now.
As it stands, I'm still getting freezes, but I'll live with them - happily - if it means everything else works!

Nana /images/forums/icons/crazy.gif

[TonyKlein]

You're doing too many things at once.

Relax, we'll get this fixed yet.

Lets go back to reinstalling IE 5.5 SP2.

Your "A previous program installation was never completed" error is very common.

This is how you get rid of it (I'm assuming your IE version info has been tweaked the way I advised you to do):

Shut down Internet Explorer and Outlook Express.

Now go to Start/Find, and type wininit.ini
When found, highlight the file and hit 'delete'

Warning: don't touch Wininit.exe

Go to C:\Windows\Temp, and empty the folder completely.
Now go to C:\Program Files\Uninstall Information, and empty that one as well.

It may be a hidden folder, so make sure 'show all files' is checked (Folder Options\View).

Now shut down as many running programs as possible, especially your antivirus, and reinstall IE.

It should work.

Good luck, Tony

<P ID="edit"><FONT class="small">Edited by TonyKlein on 07/12/02 11:17.</FONT></P>

[Nana]

Tony,

First of all, I want to assure you - I'm relaxed! /images/forums/icons/crazy.gif

Finally - <font color=red>S U C C E S S !</font color=red>
Now I have a working model of IE, correct entries in Add/Remove Programs AND System Restore is back!
<font color=red>THANK YOU, TONY!</font color=red> You are my hero. /images/forums/icons/cool.gif

Regarding IE, I decided to keep up with the times, so I installed IE6. Because I use Scripted Stationery so frequently, I was a little hesitant about upgrading. I've heard that using scripted stationery can be a nuisance with the security in IE6. Anyway, I used Custom Install so I could pick & choose. Good thing, too, as I didn't want several things - eg. MSM and a new Windows Media Player. After it was finished installing, I went to Windows Update to get whatever else was needed. Now it's complete and, so far, everything seems to be <font color=green>A-OK</font color=green>.

As for the files I deleted in order to install IE6, what, if anything, do I do about wininit.ini? Is it a necessary file? It hasn't recreated itself yet and the computer has been off & on three times since the installation of IE6.

With the IE update, I got a present! It's a new file named Recycled:
C:\Recycled\
The Recycle Bin is still there, too:
C:\WINDOWS\Desktop\Recycle Bin\

Recycled is collecting and renaming everything I delete. It's a normal folder, not special like the Recycle Bin. The dates shown are the creation date of the file, not the deletion date.
Deleted items are now going both to the Recycle Bin and Recycled. For example, I deleted three internet shortcuts from 'My Favorites'. All three are in the 'Recycle Bin' (not renamed), but they're also in 'Recycled' (different names). Here's an example of their new names:
Dc1.ini (wininit.ini)
Info 2 (hidden file - data list of all activity in the Recycle Bin)
???? (files I deleted before I found 'Recycled')
Dc21 (internet shortcut)
Dc22 (file folder)
Etc.

If I delete an item from Recycled, it dutifully goes to the Recycle Bin, but it also reappears in Recycled - with a new name. When I empty the Recycle Bin, both files empty.
This might be fun - I'll have 60G of deleted files on my HDD in no time flat! The more I delete, the more I get. Just like Christmas - the more you give, the more you get!
Do I have to delete this excellent new toy, Tony?

As I already mentioned, System Restore is back. Thank goodness! I hate using it, but it's good to know it's there if I need it. Unfortunately, System Restore lost all its check points when it wasn't working. I thought it might only have lost the ability to access it, not all its stored files as well. Oh well, it's OK now and that's all that counts.
That's all for now.

Tony, thank you so much for helping me through this mess I created and getting me out the other side. I'm still having freeze ups, but I'll learn to live with them - for the time being, anyway.

<font color=red>All's well that ends well!</font color=red>
Nana /images/forums/icons/smile.gif

[TonyKlein]

Nana,

Great to hear you finally got it fixed.

I'm a bit stumped by the Recycled issue.

You see, your Recycle Bin ought to be in C:\, and it ought to behave exactly like the folder you're saying you just discovered...

I'm thinking that you may always have had it, but that it was hidden before.

The Recycle Bin you, I and others have on the desktop, isn't a folder, but a NameSpace object.
You won't find that one in Windows Explorer, but in the Registry.

It's represented by the following Registry key:

[HKEY_LOCAL_MACHINE\SOFTWARE\Microsoft\Windows\Curr entVersion\explorer\Desktop\NameSpace\{645FF040-5081-101B-9F08-00AA002F954E}]
@="Recycle Bin"

If you remove that key, your recycle bin will disappear from the desktop, although the thing itself will still be sitting in C:.

If you doubleclick the Recycle Bin on your desktop (=this NameSpace object), what you're really seeing there is the contents of C:\Recycled.

And you shouldn't have a Recycle Bin in your Windows\Desktop folder, despite the fact that it's there.

What is the exact name and extension of the file in your Windows\Desktop folder?

[Nana]

Tony,

Hi! Sorry it took so long to get back to you, but my extended family were here swimming allllll weekend. As usual, Nana was busy making sure they ate, drank and generally had a good (and safe) time.

I'll start with the easy part first:
The <font color=blue>Recycle Bin</font color=blue>, is exactly where you said it would be in the Registry. And, yes, it's called a NameSpaceObject.

I'm pretty sure that <font color=red>C:\Recycled\</font color=red> is new. I frequently have hidden and protected system files showing, but I don't recall seeing it before - but anything is possible.

In answer to your question:
"What is the exact name and extension of the file in your Windows\Desktop folder?"

The quick answer is that there isn't one in the Desktop Folder anymore. Here's what happened:
The only major change I've made since I last posted was using System Restore (for a totally unrelated reason) early Sunday morning. One unintentional benefit - at least that's all I've seen so far. I think my <font color=blue>Recycle Bin</font color=blue> is back where it belongs. Is it?
Neither 'garbage pail' has any extension that I can see.
I display paths in the Title & Address Bars of <font color=green>Windows Explorer</font color=green>. For the first path, they both say <font color=blue>"Recycle Bin"</font color=blue> only - no "C:\" in front of it. My Computer and Desktop display the same way. <font color=red>"C:\Recycled\"</font color=red> is the path for the other. Should all of them be preceded by "C:\"?

Tony, thank you again for your continued support.
Nana /images/forums/icons/smile.gif

[TonyKlein]

Sounds good to me, Nana.

Glad to hear that everything now appears to be the way it should.

Cheers, Tony