Creating a New Folder in Explorer is really slow

[DeQuincey]

Renaming said folder also takes ages...any ideas why?

Basically, creating a new folder using the context menu or the new folder icon in the save file dialog gets to be really slow sometimes. Giving that folder a name by changing the default "New Folder" name is also a bear. However, creating a folder with mkdir works w/o issue.

This usually rears it's ugly head when windows gets cranky and what's a reboot. That is, I think it may be a resource issue because it seems to happen around the same time that icons on the taskbar start screwing up.

Lately, I have been working with a lot of archives and thus creatin, deleting and moving many files. I've been lazy, doing most of the work in explorer instead of at a prompt. (But, heck this windows....who works at the prompt?) And now this annoying "feature" is bugging me more often than before.

N1 have an explanation?


Let me add this:

Windows does not slow down! The pc hums along w/o issue downloading, burning, and what not. Sometimes all at once ;-)

But, I might then:
1) click on something new to download
2) need to create a folder for the file
3) click on the "Create new folder" icon in the save dialog
4) stare at the screen as I wait for the folder icon to appear with words "New Folder" selected so I can give it a name
5) change the name
6) whipe the drool of off my chin as I wait for the new name to be applied

Something about this smacks of crappy GUI coding!

Rebooting deals with the issue. Usually for a while.
Lately, it has happened more often.
Lately, I've been doing A LOT of file opertions using cut, copy, paste, along with drag&drop.

This isn't a continous problem, or one that has become steadily worse. This is one that pops up, every now and then, when I seriously task the system. I've had this happen after the 'puter has been running all day and I'm surfing with 2 dozen windows open.


<P ID="edit"><FONT class="small">Edited by DeQuincey on 02/05/02 11:03.</FONT></P>

[jdharm]

Are you running an antivirus program? Check the settings. I found my machine got real slow, too, because the antivirus wanted to scan every little move I made. I turned it off, and voilá! End of problem. I changed the settings to only scan new email and at startup.

Just an idea.

For what it worth.
I'm just making this up as I go along.
Scoff, ignore, or flame at will.

[coolsights2000]

Have you scandisk and defrag lately

your quote"Lately, I have been working with a lot of archives and thus creatin, deleting and moving many files. "

the drive is fragmented do a good clean up boot in safe mode and do a defrag also if you have been doing allot of moving delete this folder before you defrag...

C:\WINDOWS\APPLOG

also clean out the temp folders

Thanks
Mac!!!

This Is just my opinion
So if it stinks wait for another one
Cause I'm no expert

[DeQuincey]

Nope not running anti-virus (shame on me...) and I've dealt with that problem so I disable that pesky feature.

Windows doesn't slow down per se...explorer seems to choke on something as if it was waiting for something to happen and didn't get a reply for a while.

thanx
-deq

[DeQuincey]

To answer your question: No I haven't.

I will just because I should. But I'm not holding my breath.

My feeling is that by doing so many cut & paste operations with the files in explorer I overtax win98's partly resource "management." I'm sure I could do all this at the command prompt and not run into these issues. Note: creating a directory with mkdir works without any problems.

(can't believe i've been callin 'em "folders")

[BertImmenschuh]

"(can't believe i've been callin 'em "folders") "
Microsoft changed from MS-DOS's Directory to Windows Folder when Windows 95 came out. All the same difference, just different names.

[DeQuincey]

Thank you Mr. Obvious...
I think my point was that I was around in the DOS days.

[BertImmenschuh]

Yeah, I was too. 'Nuff about that.

<P ID="edit"><FONT class="small">Edited by BertImmenschuh on 02/05/02 12:07.</FONT></P>

[Smitty]

Hi DeQuincey

If you are not adverse to 3rd-party apps, there is "FOLDER JAZZ" a small browser enhancement that will help you out. I tried it out and haven't had any problems yet..

<a target="_blank" href=http://www.freedownloadscenter.com/Shell_and_Desktop/Context_Menu_Enhancements/Folder_Jazz_Download.html>Folder Jazz</a>

Hope it helps and hope it LIGHTENS you up! /images/forums/icons/smile.gif



Smitty

[DeQuincey]

Good for you.


Now, have any ideas 'bout this problem?
Eh, Mr. L33t?

[BertImmenschuh]

[DeQuincey]

Not adverse to the idea, but I'm trying to get at the root cause.

I've also noticed other weird things happen about this same time. (Like IE stalling when opening a new window...) These have lead me to believe that Win98 is running low on system resources and is having a hard time with the task of creating a new folder or renaming it. (And problably causing some other problems.)

(Note: I'm talking about renaming a directory through explorer, e.g. by using the context menu)

I was hoping to get some details on the process so I can be on the way to plugging this "leak."

If, copying files through the GUI uses up those precious system resources, I'd do everything at the command prompt and be done with this hassle. (Bad gui coding, simply circumvented.)

If, on the other hand, that isn't the case, I may just have serious memory leak somewhere...(More hair-pulling and posts from me..)

Thanks for the idea.

[DeQuincey]

I have little patience for ppl who need to make themselves feel improtant by posting a reply. Especially when then dont even have suggestion.

Your suggestion, if I may critisize, doesn't even follow the grain of my question. However, it is a different angle. I value it as such.

Outside of that, some opions are best left unuttered.

[Hally]

post some system spec and try turning off the accelerators in the system properties under the preformance tab... hit the buttons file system and graphics change the settings lower them and reboot and try again
good luck ---Hally---

[DeQuincey]

Dell XPS R400 Mobo
PII 400
384 MB SDRAM
20 GB Maxtor HD
Voodoo4 4500
Creative PC-DVD Encore Dxr3 (mpeg2 card)
Creative 12X DVD drive
HP 8200e USB Burner
Canon CanoScan FB 630u (usb scanner)
4 port Linksys USB router (with external power supply)
3Com EhterLink III ISA nic (3c509b-TPO)

IE 5.5 SP2 - been upgrading this constantly hoping it would fix things.
Office2000
Visual Studio 6 SP4
Various other apps, games and utils that I won't list here.


Now my questions for for you Hally:

1) How will scaling back the graphics acceleration help?

2) What settings do you suggest I change under 'File System Properties?'

3) Now under 'File System Properties' on the 'Hard Disk' tab for the choice called 'The typical role of this computer' currently I have 'Desktop System' selected.

I'm going to trying cranking this UP to the 'Network Server' option becuase I know for sure that's the setting that works best. (If you really want to question me on this point, please do. I will provide all the info you need to be convinced.)


Now the restating:

I've been around this block MANY times. I've seen this issue re-occur with varying frequency. Recently, I thought I found a link to the many file operations I was doing through the clipboard i.e. cut & paste in explorer.

This isn't a continuous problem. It happens after the system has been up for a long time. After, I've been doing a lot with it. Usually, it would be days or weeks. Now, its more frequent and I attribute this to moving files around on my HD by way of the clipboard.

So, I guess the question should've been:

<a target="_blank" href=http://www.winguides.com/forums/showflat.php?Cat=&Board=genwin&Number=37376&page=0&view=collapsed&sb=5&part=&vc=>File operations using the clipboard: wasteful?</a>

Hope this clears up any confusion...

(an i hope y'all proof read your posts before submiting them, instead of just farting something off real quick. Hally, I'm looking in your direction. i had interpret your post and frankly that's bad. i appreciate your advice. you've certainly given me an idea, but i had to work harder on understanding your post than i did on writing this one.)

[coolsights2000]

The setting that he was talking about is lowered for trouble shooting purposes...
by changing the about settings the cache gets smaller

How big is you hard drive cache you will see a delay because the system has to update the cache
when you have that much ram the system gets clog with data when you use the dos mode the cache is not involved

open the system monitor and check the hard drive cache ...



By the way we don't have X-ray vision.. You asked for a solution so we need some info to find a solution.... I don't have that problem cause I use a small cache... in the case of cache ... bigger is not better...

the cache has to up date ever time you make that small changed or move a file... if the cache is in the mega bytes your one click is causing MBytes of information too move....

you should be able to find the system monitor off the start menu in the system folder

post back!!!

Thanks
Mac!!!

This Is just my opinion
So if it stinks wait for another one
Cause I'm no expert

[Hally]

In my best impersonating "Kamahl" Voice. . .
WHY ARE PEOPLE SO UN-KIND
Kindest Regards ---Hally---

[jdharm]

I put a lot of though into whether or not to write this. I decided I shouldn't, but I'm not known for my social graces.

Here is an opinion that is probably "best left unuttered": You sure are rude for someone looking for help. JMHO.

And lest I try your patience by not having a suggestion: Be nice for a change. Some people on these boards are more skilled than others, but everyone is here to help out. Show a little appreciation. And thanking someone for their opintion doesn't count if you follow it with 'but your wasting my time'.

For what it worth.
I'm just making this up as I go along.
Scoff, ignore, or flame at will.

[DeQuincey]

I'm not goiing to apologize for expecting more out of all of you. I'm used to contributors that read the whole the post thoroughly and don't just fart off an answer.

I mention the word slow down and everybody says "scandisk, defrag, virus check.' No, f@kin sh1t, really? Maybe I have already exhausted other avenues before coming to the forums. That is what you're supposed to do, isn't it?

But, I don't mind that. I know how forums work. That's the problem here, I've been in your shoes many times people. And I'm just thorougly dissapointed. I was attracted to this forum by some really studly posts. You know the kind, with great in-dept knowledge and a nice explanation of wtf Windows is doing. Imagine my dissapointment when people are telling me to scandisk, defrag, yadda yadda.

You all should know that's freakin weak. That seems to be the first thing out of everyone's mouth on this forum. Not to mention that it ignores everything in my post. This isn't happening everytime as soon as I boot-up, as it may if I needed a defrag. And, com'on, the clusters would have to distributed by a tornado and mabye then I'd see this kind of symptom, maybe.

***

Guys, after Windows has been running for a long time creating a directory through explorer takes 30-60 seconds. But, reading and writing to the drive are just fine. No delays, stalls or hiccups. Like my original post said, I'd have this problem and still be able to burn cds, download and surf the web. If I'd try to create a directory or rename one through explorer, it would stall for about 30-60 seconds. (Don't tell me 2mb would take that long to write to disk.) And, once I'm affected by it, that's it. Windows is done, time to reboot. I could leave it running and still do a lot of things, except that IE and Explorer are gagging regularly past that point.

Problems that require defrag are there continuously and get steadily worse. This one just pops up, usually, after a long time.
This time I noticed someting else. Namely, moving many files around w/ explorer.

Now, why is everyone telling me to defrag? Yes, I know it solves many newbie's problem. But, read the post.

***

Hally, I definetly didn't mean to be rude to you. However, let's asume I was a newbie. Your post youd've confused me more than anything. Heck, it had me scratching my head. I wasn't sure which of the tabs to be looking for or why you thought I should. Yeah I figured it had to be the HD tab. But, I had to think about it 'cause it wasn't in line with what was happening on my system

Again, my system does not slow down! Defrag was the first thing I did, when I first experienced this issue. And that was, oh man, over a year ago? I've suffered clean installs of windows several times since then. (for reasons other than this, like screwing up my partitions when installing Linux and Win2k. oh yeah, did i mention that this is a triple-boot system? I'm not an idiot ppl. Quit treating me like one.)


coolsights2000, thanks for giving the background on what Hally's refering to. That's all I needed on that matter...give people some explanation so they know why they're doing what they're doing.

I know you don't have X-ray vision. But, you guys aren't even asking the questions you should. Folks, I'm a techie with a voracious apetite for computers. You're NOT talking to a newbie. And you're not talking to some guy with an associate degree from WeJustSrungUpOvernight Technical College. I taught myself and I expect the world out of anyone who thinks they know enough to be answering questions. Having spent a lot time doing this kind of thing, I know the type of questions you should be asking.

I am this way because of the time I've already spent in IRC, NewgsGroups and now these web forums. I expect you guys to bring it up a notch. I expect you to think your suggestions through, in light of everything that was posted about the problem. I've even written a post that takes this problem from totaly different angle. And, there BertWETFHisName is just wasting my time.


Now we come to what set me off to begin with:

BertImmenschuh's first response:
--
"(can't believe i've been callin 'em "folders") "
Microsoft changed from MS-DOS's Directory to Windows Folder when Windows 95 came out. All the same difference, just different names.
--

Thanks man, they were in parens for a reason. i.e. not pertinent to the problem. Something for a lil chuckle. What do I care if you've been around since the days of DOS if you're not posting anyting that will come even close to helping me? That's what I mean by vanity. Thanks for the little tidbit, I think you're so cool for knowing that. As if...

***

Hally, I apologize for the way I said what I said to you. But, I'm not sorry about the message itself. I clown anyone who doesn't proof-read their post. There's just no excuse. If you're in hurry, you have to go or something, then don't post. Come back to it, it will still be here.

***

jdharm, did someone cut your b@alls off? Stand up for what you believe and shout it from the mountains. Don't be afraid. Out of everyone's lash-back yours I appreciate the most. Thanks, you're right in a lot of ways. But, everyone is not here to help out. Some people on these boards need to feed their egos. I'm not pointing any fingers. Just mentioning that fact.

And you know, I do appreciate everyone's opinion. Even if I'm clowning you for something else about your post. (You're right, though, I could be nicer about.)

All the same, just 'being helpful' is not enough. You have to look at ask yourself 'do i really know what his problem is?', 'do i really have a possible solution?' (and i'm coming here from personal experience. i'm willing to admit that sometimes i've posted answers out of my own vanity and i'm ashamed for it.)

But, if someone leads you away from the answer with a 'helpful' post, are they really being helpful? If someone doesn't understand the problem and they still post something, are they being helful?


Gimme a couple months guys. If I'm still around on this forum, you'll see the kind of guy that I am and what I mean by a good post.

For those of you who cared enough to make it all the way down here, please repond. I do care 'bout what you have to say, but think it through.


(now how's that for a lot of thinking?)

[DeQuincey]

I'm sorry for being so rude to you Hally. Someone else had already set me off. The difficulties I had reading your post kinda blinded me. You didn't deserve as severe a lashing. Read my other post if you care to know what I was thinking...

[DeQuincey]

Cache pages: ~20k
Cache Buffers: ~10k
Max Cache Pages: ~25k
Min Cache Pages: ~25k


But, how would this be an intermitent problem? Wouldn't I see the symptoms of having too large a disk cache more often?

[e_Name]

"...For those of you who cared enough to make it all the way down here, please repond. I do care 'bout what you have to say, but think it through..."

http://www.winternet.com/~mikelr/flame34.html

e_

[coolsights2000]

If you are going to put people down for a missed spelled word or something they said to try to help you need to go to http://www.annoyances.org/exec/forum/win98 there is a guy by the name of Michael that has your tude he things he is the guru's of guru's you two would get along great and by the way don't miss spell a word their....He puts people down but I never really see a good answer from him...

I treat people as they treat me..

Besides
first you said you have been to other forums and have not had the problem resolved yet.

. and that I'm a techie with a voracious apetite for computers. You're NOT talking to a newbie. And you're not talking to some guy with an associate degree from WeJustSrungUpOvernight Technical College.
Then what hally posted was over you head did you think maybe you should have ask another question instead of going off on him we have no idea what level you are at... and yes I agree with just having a degree doesn't mean crap.. I worked with a guy that had been thru school he said it was a joke LOL but he was makin $25.00 hr as an adminstartor.. he he said he was stupid... the more you learn the more you figure out you don't know...

beside I asked for the hard drive cache not the page cache... I need to know what the hard drive cache is doing when you have this problem....





Thanks
Mac!!!

This Is just my opinion
So if it stinks wait for another one
Cause I'm no expert

[jdharm]

_____________________________________
For those of you who cared enough to make it all the way down here, please repond. I do care 'bout what you have to say, but think it through.
_____________________________________

Put in the context of having been around the world already with this problem with no success your frustration is understandable, but still no excuse for rudeness. If a post does you no good there's nothing wrong with just ignoring it. No need to be nasty.

No one here knows you or your background when you first post here. What if you had been a newbie and everyone posted deeply techinical stuff, assuming you were a wiz. Then you'd feel like everyone was tring to make you feel inferior or like you didn't belong here. Don't be upset with people because they don't make assumptions about you or presume to know who you are before they really do. If your still around in a few months and the regulars know you better, then would be the time to be upset about simplistic replies.

BTW:

"jdharm, did someone cut your b@alls off"

Yes, the wife keeps them in her purse. Even so, diplomacy is not the same as emasculation.

And I hope you are around in a few months. It's an excellent resource. I havn't been here that long but in the short time I have found that the people here go out of their way to help you if at all possible. And there are plenty of us here who aren't at your skill level and would benefit from your experience.



For what it worth.
I'm just making this up as I go along.
Scoff, ignore, or flame at will.

[DeQuincey]

Those entries all came from the "Disk Cache" category. If you have a resource that actually explains those entries, please let me know. (The 'explanations' that come with sysmon are rather lacking)

Is that not the hard drive cache?


"I need to know what the hard drive cache is doing when you have this problem...."

Fair-enough. Why didn't you say-so in the first place? Also, what am I looking for?

I think a short explanation of your reasoning and what to look for would've gone a long way to help me. (That's my approach, anyway, enpower the person, teach 'em to fish...'cause that's what works best with me.)


Hally's post didn't go over my head. I couldn't think of a reason that I'd want to fool with those settings. A simple "I think a large disk cache could be the cause of such a problem..." would've been all I needed. (and you're all right...i should've been nicer about it, no argument with that)

I hope it's not too much to ask for a bit of an explanation of your reasoning on the situation. I know that helps me with the big-picture look at the problem.


Now, I don't clown ppl for mispellings, so don't even go there. I miss plenty of mine and I'm a stickler for proof-reading your own work. But, 'I want to preview my post' is selected by default...

[DeQuincey]

Sure, but diplomacy takes quiet a bit of courage doesn't it?

"no excuse for rudeness."

That says it all right there. I agree.